Social Media Lab LIVE!
Social Media Lab LIVE!

Episode · 1 year ago

The Science of Social Media Advertising with Naira Perez

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

We will be joined by advertising expert Naira Perez from SpringHill Digital to discuss the SCIENCE of advertising on social media .

Naira has extensive experience in direct to consumer advertising for big Fortune 500 brands and is now taking this experience to help small to medium businesses.

In this episode you'll learn:
1. Why is audience definition important?
2. Are followers still worth acquiring through advertising or should they all be acquired organically?
3. What are the differences between Google advertising and social media advertising?
4. Should businesses advertise on Bing? Is Bing dead or alive?
5. When should a company hire an agency? (and what to ask to evaluate agencies)

Welcome to the social media lab live podcast. I am Scott Airs, the content scientists at the Social Media Lab, where we bust a miss the rumors in the stories of social media marketing with science. Today my interview is with Nira Perez, and Nyra is a social media advertising nerd, and I mean nerd and the nicest possible way, like she knows social media advertising more than anybody else I probably have talked to on the show. You're going to dive into what she has to say. She's very calm about it and I love her demeanor. I loved the content that we talked about and we flew through and this this interview an hour went by so stink and fast. So make sure you listen to this. Also make sure over to social media lab dot live. You can see all the other interviews that we have done here in the social media lab live over the last two and a half years and I would love to have you follow us, give a review, subscribe, all those good things and all the podcast places. Now onto my interview with Nira Perez. So let's get into today's topic, which is the thee I'm calling the science of Social Media Advertising, and I'm gonna Bring on my guests and Nira Perez from M springhill digital. NYRUS, good to have you on the show. Hello, I'm really excited to be here. And here's the funny thing for watching this like Nar and I've never met until about fifteen minutes ago, and I don't know, I'm not sure she was prepared for this, and so was kind of Funn to see her reaction when she came on and the Green Room like yeah, this is what you're doing today. So yeah, you can tell your kids you got to talk to a troll doll, which I'm not a troll doll, though I'm close to Beaker, but I'm really just this guy, but close to beaker. But Anyway, Nara. Nara does Social Media Markas for enterprise level and all kinds of businesses. But I don't like reading BIOS. Everybody knows that. So, Nari, give us like your, let's say you're thirty to sixty two elevator pitch on what you do or what you've been doing and why we should listen to you when it comes to social media advertising. Yes, well, thank you so much for having me here today. My thirty seconds or sixty seconds, peach, would be we actually had expreen hill. Do you don't? Will help small to medium businesses to get the quality advertising, a BIS and management that they deserve? The reason why you should listen to me is because I have, like you mentioned, I have work with enterprise companies. I have worked with really big companies and whenever you know there is a smaller company that comes into a big agency, sometimes you know they're but just don't let them get the quality advertising consulting that they need. So that's that's what I bring to the table. I bring to the table the same quality advise, the same quality management then that you can get in a big agency, but for smaller companies. And I've been doing these four a long time. Looked up. We want to aid you. We want edge there and your in Portland, Oregon, out there on the West Coast, and I don't know by everybody else, but I was looking at your your paper behind you, trying to read as like Oh, I see, customer journey, what we got going on? Yes, I was reading everything behind you. So you know we're what we're going to ask Narra custom different questions and walk through and, like I said, if you've got questions as we go feel for to ask. Mark says high, Scott Loving to Gore a pulse. Appreciate you, mark, and Jason Saying I vout for Scott, he does follow up with comments. Yeah, I try to. Sometimes I slack on it, but I have a school product called a Gore pulse that helps me do all that. That's how I keep up with all of our comments. So the first question we want to hop into. This is like really long on the screen. I think maybe it's not too bad. It is our followers still worth acquiring through...

...advertising or are should you only get followers organically? In Two Thousand and twenty one? Yeah, so here is the history of these question that the question is. It used to be at the very beginning of social media everybody was paying for followers like the finger, the number the better, and then we realize that, okay, just quantity doesn't mean quality. So then followers became a vanity metric and everybody was staying away from the vanity metric. You don't want monity metrics, you want results, you want quality, and I think that the pendulum has swing the other way, where is you have to get quality targeted audiences in in your followers. Organic only gets you so far, and we have seen that an if anybody's running organic community management and your reach is so small that you have to pay for some features that you know ten years ago, you will get for free. So whenever you're thinking about your followers, whenever you're thinking about your page, your social media page, you want to be talking to the person that could potentially actually buy your product at the end that you want to talk to the proper audience, and so when ever you pay to advertise to the audience, you can define who that person is and therefore attract them to your page. So I don't I don't advocate for a hundred percent paid, a hundred percent organic. I am. I advocate for a balance, because there is is the quality and then there is the quantity and also, you know, organic followers mean that your content is interesting to them and therefore they're sharing it, they're bringing all their rowers, etc. Etc. Now you mentioned having a balance. How do you how do you figure out that balance? Like, what what might that look like for a company that come see you? Like, how do you you know, how do you focus on because the lost time, you think, it adds. We think of you know, you're sending people to landing pages and try to get a lead. But how do you how do you balance that out and figure out what like a good equation there is? Yeah, it just depends on so many things, right, and this is typical marketing person saying so, but it is. You have to look at the goals of the business. You have to look at how much they have achieved through organic and how that organic follower is behaving. And if it's already the right profile, then then we're at a great place. Then maybe you just supplement a little bit just to continue growing. But we work with a lot of smaller companies that or startups that they don't have anything, they don't they don't know even who their persona, their idea of persona, is. So when we're looking at those companies, then we we sometimes have to start with paid to guide them into what organic could look like. Right. Yeah, that's definitely starting from scratch. is going to be the the that'll be so tough disdaining the but it might be better because, like you're saying, you get more quality followers. where. I think back, as I've been in social media now for ten eleven years, it was like the wild west. You Post a funny cat meme and everybody followed your page and there we your fan back in those days on facebook, and but they don't engage down the road where now, if you're targeting them. I think that's part and that kind of leads it over to the next question I want to ask you, because you kind of segued into that really nicely, because it is. Why is audience definition important? And then at the same time, how? How? What's the best way that we define who our audiences are? You said like your...

...your ideal pro we called ICP, the ideal customer profile. Is probably what you're saying as well. How do you define that, with ads and all that set like? What would you say here to this? Yes, we actually definite way, in advanced we define it before we get ads. We define it before we even go and manage community pages for our clients. Well, we do is we get together with the client and we really go through what's your ideal customer? And for smaller to medium companies, the founder is normally very involved and they created the company for the very specific reason and sometimes it is to solve a problem that they themselves had. So they think that everybody that is like them will be the persona that we're going to reach and that sometimes it's true, but sometimes your product or service can be used in slightly different ways and the market adopts that variation and therefore there is more than one persona. It's not just what the founder thought at the very beginning, it's how your product or service, how your brand, has evolved. So why is it important? And this is a problem that agencies have sometimes, it is convincing clients that, even though it's not going to give you immediate Arrow. I like, if I spend two months developing personas, you know you're not going to get anything right now. However, whenever I start implementing those personas, I'm going to be able to talk to that person almost in a in such a personal level that it's going to connect, is going to engage them, it's going to be something more than just an ad's going to be something more than just a post, is going to resonate. HMM. And whenever you just don't create personas and just spread love like a sprinkler, then you don't get efficiencies. PERSONAS GIVE YOU efficiencies once implemented. So whenever we make we actually get clients to understand those efficiencies. Whenever we get them to understand that Roy is down the road, then that's when they understand why developing person this is important. Yeah, I think that's so true. I know for us, like for a Goora Pulse, we've always, you know, we had what we thought might have been our persona. You're not talking to those right before we got going, you know, we've realized, you know, after the company's been around for, you know, almost a decade, really like okay, our ideal customer profile is probably agencies, and so now we got to talk like agencies. We got to talk to them, we got to make content for agencies, and that's what you got to figure out sometimes, especially if any of you, and I don't know if you've done this, and I were, gone through the whole jobs to be done, the studies. I used to do a lot of jtbd stuff, a lot of testing and interviewing people, and you find out sometimes your product isn't what you thought, people aren't using the way you thought they were going to. Yeah, and you go, Oh, well, that's not what I wanted, but this is what I've got and so I've got to shift everything and I think that's super, super important, specially in your your advertising, your marketing, what you're saying, what you look like, how you talk. You've got to make sure you know who that is. Otherwise it's fallen on deaf ears exactly because you know it. And and he could be the proper persona. It could be like the customer. Is that WHO's going to come back right and purchase? However, if you have not analyze who he or she is, who they are, and you don't understand their language, you were just talking about, it is right the language they are speaking. I'm not talking about Spanish English, but I'm talking about how do they refer to the questions? What are the pain points? How do they think about them? And we've had these with clients where they were really technical but their audience wasn't so the message. It was the right message, but it was warded in a way that they didn't understand. The audience didn't understand it,...

...so they didn't adopt. They didn't adopt the product or the service. So that it's also very important. It helps you develop the proper content and the proper way to deliver that content. Yeah, because I would assume then, once you've got the persona figured it out. Then how you advertise and what you say is going to change and it's going to be more in May cost you more probably for those ads, but you're targeted now and so they just throwing everything out there and hoping some sticks. You get you get better quality leads that are coming in later on. Yeah, so anything else about audience that you would you would recommend US think about when we're talking about ads or anything of that nature? Well, yeah, it's the process that you go through to develop that person. I like you were mentioning interviews with customers. That's great. Whenever you have customers you're just starting. How do you do that with a brand that has no data for you? Right? So that process of searching where these people are going to are going to be, like, are they on facebook? Are they on Linkedin? What? What books do they purchase on Amazon? What do they comment on those books? How are they solving the problem right now? That's that's a very long process. As as agencies, we we owe that to our clients to know almost as much about their service and their product. Then then they do and I think most edges probably don't do that right. They're just hey, hire me, I'll start posting stuff and managing your content and go. They don't do the investigation, typically on that persona. They just want to they want to business and then they don't. They don't worry. Don't think I'll put the effort of that. Then they might be doing the right then they get no results and they aid their their clients mad at them. But your advertise the wrong you know, profile. So that's definitely yeah. Well, that tends to be not so much on agencies, and I find that, thankfully, all the agencies that I have talked to they do have a process. So I'm happy to see that is the one offs. You know that, like the probably have not been in an agency setting. Agencies Thrive on processes. They thrive on being able to duplicate whatever worked. So they have develop. We have develop a process. But it's somebody that is new to the market that starts giving services, that is not a used to doing processes. That it's because social media and and especially social media advertising, especially facebook, is really guilty of this. is they make it look so easy. Yeah, they do. So I don't just click your pickure cricket and you're good to go. We're done. Yeah, what's that? I put my post all the time. Or, like you and I were talking my knees, who's nineteen and it's an instagram. Yeah, microof answer. Then she can do it. So that's that is that is something that I have not this is that part. That is the dangerous part. I think agencies for the for the most part, do have processes. Yeah, you know, I think it's awesome. Only way you can sustain business as the only way you can set expectation that. We've had a couple of like on a Brad Freedmans it on our show and Eddie Garrison and talked about studying expectations. And you know, you get used to that process and how to run people through and you control your client better if you have those processes in place where you if you're just like hey, i'ls are doing stuff and you don't know, you know, you have nothing set up, that's going to bite in the butt. Yes, it's all over with now. An interesting question to ask you, and because you hear this all the time too, is we have a guy who does all of our ads for us now and he does Google and social to you, as an agency or something, Marky, what's the differences. How...

...do you target audience? Is definitely how do you talk differently between the two of these? Yeah, that's a actually a very common conversation that I have with clients. Where should I go? Google ads or social media or facebook? Well, he depends, but the main difference is the why. Why the audience is there right in Google they're there. Their intention is to search for a topic. You're already in an intentional positive for you. You are already they are in the frame of mind of finding a solution, and so you don't you may not know who they are as much as you could in social media, but you know they are there too. As an example, look at it's now tires. So you already can establish a conversation with them or give them an offer that actually makes sense. And also, Google ads are very good for driving straight offers. So I'm not in Google adds to educate as much as I am to offer them something that they cannot resist and that is relevant to them. I truly believe in a win win situation between brand and customer. So that's Google ads and in general, any search engine, you know platform. In facebook, on the other hand, they're more therefore their own entertainment here. There to catch up with friends, they're there to watch videos, to connect with other people in groups. There is they're there for themselves. They're maybe not needing those is no tires. Maybe they're not thinking about this. Not Tired. So it's you're in Texas last week and then that's all we're thinking, like, why don't we have these for the once every ten years we need them yet exactly, unless but you know, as an example, Texas wouldn't have been a state that I would have targeted. And you know, January it probably would have. In Colorado, it would have been, you know, all the northern states. It would have been the states where I know there's no correct and I don't know that also in like a one week or two weeks period that you guys had that terrible weather, that I'm going to sell a lot of snow tires for that. So what the point is that in facebook you're there to create brand, you're there to create community and to engage and learn from your audience, and this is something that also kind of makes some clients narviews the path, that the fact that ads are there and people comment on ads. Some clients N areas and I always say just listen to them and even if the comments are sort of negative, obviously if they're to stick cross the line. That cross the line. You have all the right to the lead or time, sure, but if they're good questions, then take that opportunity to educate them. And we have that. We are we we do have a client that has underwear. It's underwear, it's only female underwear and it sorbent and their where, their name is on there. So they we have had questions about, well, does these really work? or how absorbent can an and their where be or, you know really really interesting questions, and obviously we're not answering that in our ads. So let's take that opportunity to listen. These are pain points that the audience is having list manage those comments and I have seen people turn around and say, you know what, these makes sense. Now I'm going to look at them more closely. And I have. I have lots of questions here. Oh I love them, because I'm like, okay, this, this is a this is interesting. The first thing is,...

...like the negative comments you're mentioned, like we've actually ran to study in the lab before on Facebook, add negative comments and we have found the negative comments can really, really hurt your add performance. So you want to make sure you're monitoring those, you know, with with an APP like a core a pulse. I think we're the only one that actually will add monitor your facebook ad comments, but you are. We found that deleteing them was best, not hiding them just because you still see that. You know. I remember there's an ad I saw I was like had like a hundred comments. I tap on it to see the comments and there was like two because the rest of them were hidden in your in. Immediately my brain went, oh, they're hiding something. There's a lot of negativity going on. Say hit them. So I get why you hide them because you're still having that conversation maybe, but if it's trolls or people just being negative, I always just say yeah, delete them and move on now. Second question this underwear stuff. Now, I don't want to get all weird, you know, on it, but there's got to be some crazy restrictions on what you can do on facebook for that advertise. What's that like for some unique product like that? Yes, for and there are. It's a very interesting because anything that is suggestive, yeah, then it gets it gets it gets label in a different way. So we have been able to be very conservative and what we show. But you know, I'm not gonna lie to you. We've had one at that was rejected because facebook thought it was way to suggest it. I could see that. Yeah, and you know, for us is only and east. So we have to focus on a part of the body, right. so that also creates problems because facebook has rules against that because they don't want to promote, you know, body image problems, right. So it is delicate and that's why you get on a specialist. You get somebody that can deal with that. Yeah, that would that's that's gotta because I didn't know you could even advertise it on facebook. Obviously I've never seen those ads before. Now I've seen other male products, you know, on Facebook, but they're not as sensitive per se, especially the image, imagery of it. It's not. But I would think even like the cannabis industry and some other things, you got to have some very you gotta know someone you pimp. They gotta know what they're doing or they're going to mess up everything for you and you're going to get band. Now, is it easier for the for this UNDY's business? Is it easier on Google ads versus facebook adds and circum as. What's been the best platform for that? Yeah, I mean it depends on your objectives. Again, so it just it just depends there. I'm going to I'm going to be honest with you. So whenever there's a pun in there too, it just depends. By the way, it's that's the forty five year old dad and me jokes. storry. Sorry, keep going, keep going. So, m yeah, it just depends on what we're trying to do. If we have a really, really great offer, then Google ads is a really good place. However, if you're creating a new industry, so as I think, as I example, these u their ware industries very new. It's period and there were so you know, it's still growing. So, but we have other customers where Google adds doesn't make any sense because nobody's searching for you right. So what we need to do is create brand, create bus in facebook or in Linkedin or whatever social platform, so that people are start actually searching on Google ads. I mean, obviously Google ads involves more than search involves. These play and those things are great. Retargeting through Google is actually a great idea, but you have you need a starting point. So if you have a great offer and you have search volume and or you have a lot of traffic to your website, that then you want to retarget really and expensively. Then Google add is a...

...fantastic platform. Yeah, is it? Do you think from your experience is is the decision, the touch points to make a purchase faster on Google ads versus social ads? The their intensive. You're searching on Google. Yah, yeah, you're searching again. Is that intention? They are already in the frame of mind of looking for it is now tires or looking for these underwear. So that is where you get into it. Normally conversion is easier through there, but you have to get a good offer and you have to have a good landing page. So you know, there's a lot of factors that go into that, but I would say Google adds is a faster conversion. And you know, facebook is where you kind of engage, coreate community and educate. Right, and Jason's got a good question here. We kind of answers a a little bit. What are your thoughts on negative comments? At a thought of put a disclaimer, for example, we will not engage. Our intentions are genuine, but you do put anything like that on your ads about negative we don't. We don't. We don't put that. It makes the adds. Our intentions for the ADS is a to go very, very easily into people's news feed be able to be consumed really easily, and so if you think about mobile facebook adds as an example, they don't. You only have three lines. So there is so much you can say right, unless you have a video. Then you can compliment. Your picture, is very important, and then your offer and title on headline. Right. So we don't put the disclaimers. However, I feel totally fine the leading comments that are not respectful. I have no regrets about it and the brand shouldn't either. You, you are paying for that add you are paying to reach New People. So in my mind, if I allow comments that are negative to go on, I'm in spreading and not negative but disrespectful, then then I am helping them and spread that these respect throughout the Internet. So I have no problem just taking them off. Now negative comments, it just depends on the level of negativity. If it's a negativity that is due to not knowing about the product or it's a genuine question formulating in a negative way, then we engage. We engage, we educate, we send people to the resources that they need to go to. So that's that's where we actuates. Our role to manage those comments so that they don't turn into these respectful comments or extremely negative and that way you're showing your audience. The next person that comes then maybe had that in their mind but didn't verbalize that. They actually can see how respectful you are to people that think differently than you do, so or that have questions. There is there is such a thing as being respectful to somebody that has the question that maybe was not that smart, and that's okay. And I think to probably for you in your experience when you get if you if you run an ad and you get tons of negative comments, you there's probably a learn experience. Okay, I didn't target that audience properly. I need to shift maybe a little bit if I'm getting nothing but negative and obviously that was a bad audience. It wasn't the right ideal persona. So there was a learning point there that you definitely I know I've got that when I've run some ads. I'm always run different ads. A test on facebook's any traffic, you know, to the lab and I got I was I was targeting mainly social media influencers. He we followed their pages, but then I targeted science and social science just to kind of see, because you know this thing. Those are the worst comments, like because there they weren't my talk at audience and I was just getting nothing. But why am...

I studing this? Get this off my periers? Probable. I'm like, okay, let's take that thing out really quickly in the AD as fast as I could, because it was it was great as a lot of comments, but they're not my adult customer and so it was really routing it. It was eating up my ad budget really fast, and so you got to make sure you got somebody's running your ads as pay attention to that and targeted, you know, correctly. Now you we talked about Google, we talked about social media and you wanted me to ask this question. I'm like dieing though the answer too, because I forget about this site. Should you advertise on being and it's being dead or alive? I don't even know the answer to this one at all. Yeah, yeah, so being. It's now Microsoft ads. So, but I love of playing still refer to it as being so and it is a life. It is a life and for certain products it works really well. Really yes, so it is. Microsoft ads will never, ever, their budget will never surpass your Google ads. So it's maybe with if you're lucky, you will spend a hundred dollar, a hundred dollars on Google ads and then thirty on Microsoft ads. Maybe right, it's a third, if you're lucky, maybe half. But here is the deal. The Roi on Microsoft adds that we've been able to achieve is almost sometimes double what Google adds, because Google at's everybody goes to Google ads. It's true. Yeah, the competition is really high. Yeah, yeah, it's really high. So even though their audience is not as big in being or Microsoft ads, they returns on investment can actually be very, very good. HMM, that's interesting. I don't you know. I don't. I guess you think about every computer. When if you get a PC, that's the first thing that's installed by default for Internet browser. So it's there. Some people never download chrome or fire Fox or yeah, that's so they're using why? I didn't even think about it. That's the same too. Of like read it, like I've done test on read it adds and they've done really well for me because no one O. There's not the competitions low over there and like thirteen percent of the people using the Internet used read it. So there's a lot of people there but not a lot of competitions. So I think I think it's cooled. You've used now what's someon some, is there a unique other than the the the UNDY's? Have you advertised those there? On being, well, we don't. So there's something unique. On being, I give you figured out a unique audience for being or our for Microsoft ads. You know what I will tell you? Be To be works really well in Microsoft adds because it's again some companies will have something against downloading chrome or downloading you know, anything else. So be to be is really good. And also Microsoft adds fuels that DOTG and yeah, say, even privacy. You know, people that are concerned about privacy will get Microsoft adds through doc go, HMM, that's interest. Yeah, anything. I you know, ask you saw the comma that just came in there, like Marcus saying a lot of his you know, mini customer clients use edge and their PC and that's all they use, like it's the first thing I uninstalled every time I've gotten a PC, I'm like, Nope, done, get that off there. Same thing on my Mac book, like so far he's on it, but I would never use it. That's really and now Jason asked a good question here. Is, how do you determine if it's an ideal platform for a product? Like, how do you know? How do you? How'd you figure out? Okay, I need to advertise in the Microsoft Yeah area, or shift that money where do you? How do you figure that out and balance and convinced a client it's worth the effort? Yeah, well, that comes up in the research that we do. While we do persona research, that's where we find where the audience is. Also will find where...

...the competitors of the product are. There is a lot of transparency right now on where products are running and so you can see if that product or service or brand is being successful in a channel if they have stayed for a long time. Nobody stays in a channel if they're not successful. So and also it's just a type of offer, if it's or and the type of goal that the brand are product has. If I want to educate people, they may be Google search is not the best place because they you know, people that don't know about the industry, don't know about the product, won't search for it. So you know, if I want to educate, then facebook will be or social media will be a great place. If I see us a lot of search volume, then I know that I can that I have an audience on search. So it just depends. I we make a lot of research beforehand. We consult the people in in in those channels. We have a specialist. So we work with especially. So if you want Google at you will get a Google ads especially if you won't get our social media specialist, social media specialist will be for Facebook Linkedin, and so we actually talk to them and see have you seen these in the past? What do you think about they offer and it's a back and forth. There's a team effort. I'm not gonna like use a team effort to find out which platform is the right one. And so we start with the best platform that we think is the best and then always test, and these is what we do in the spring. He leashit that we always test. I'm sure you like that. I Love I love testing. Yes, I gets me excited. That's guys. Yeah, I think. I think it's what you gotta do. I think you just got to try it out. Like I said, I try to read it adds for a little while. Haven't gone back over there for a little bit, but you got to figure out. Okay, do I may not like, I may not have an audience on facebook, but my audience is on Linkedin. So let's figure that out, let's let's find what that is, and that's okay. I think a lot of people just go out of macca will. Everybody's doing facebook and instagram. Let's just do those. Yeah, twitter, you know, you don't know, although this for ads. Yeah, they're rough, relaxed it. Well, what I've experienced with twitter adds anyway, is people leave the it's on by default, the twitter audience performance network or whatever, and then you're advertising in every stupid gaming APP on the planet for them to you know that. The watch the add for ten seconds for they go to the next thing and it's useless. It's not targeted. So you always have to make and facebook has that to you. Got To make sure you from those off. I've blown a lot of money not turn that off on twitter. Like yeah, those, like look at all these clicks and I'm like way, yeah, I can tell you like a million of those. Is My five year old. Oh yeah, yeah, right, it's my son to are on some game. Yeah, definitely for sure. Now you mentioned you, you were talking about having an agency that kind of knows ads, knows the difference, and this is a good segue over to our final question with you here before we have a little fun with our five questions, is is when, when should a company high an agency? And then how do you ask and how do you evaluate what's the best agency for you as a business? Yeah, so you hire an agency whenever you stop having fun with with managing your own saying. But yet that's the that's the moment and that's what I was betting. The legital Willbilly is like found there's just started their business because they wanted to solve a problem. In particular, they wanted to create a product that they wanted to give a service. They didn't found an company to actually start learning about every single piece of marketing content that there is out there. They didn't. They didn't want to spend, you know, hours and hours learning why? What is an impression, what is a KPI and how to manage the different platforms. So at some point your marketing kind of overpowers you or your team.

That is the time that you need actually an expert or if you don't know where to start, if you are just starting, like startups that you have, sometimes it's actually better to go with an agency that knows what they're doing and can get you started the right way and the most efficient way for your budget. So I know that whenever we talk to clients, sometimes it's like, well, but I have the budget and you know, paging an agency or getting my knees. You know who's an instagrammar doing it. Well, you know, is your knees going to give you the same Roy just think about that. Is is she going to establish the foundation that is going to support your entire marketing moving forward? Can she react to the market place the way that we have seen two thousand and twenty? If you have an agency, you were chasing your tail all the time because every week there was something new and if you didn't know how to navigate those new challenges, then it was a dance. It was dangerous for you to be raising. So just think about these experts will help you navigate those challenges and will get you where you want to go in a way more efficient way. If you were going to safari, will you just, you know, rent a car and going to into, you know, the safari by yourself? Probably not. You need a guide and you need the proper equipment. So when you think about that, that's what agencies are there your guide. They bring the proper equipment, right and it would you suggest, because you're importland organ are most your clients in that area? We have some clients here. We have some clients with had actually international clients, which that's a that's a fun, fun set of clients. So not necessarily they're not always here. It's absolute for those, but we yeah, we have national clients to yeah, I think you're you know, you said your first part of your answer. This was when it's no longer fun to run your social media. Yeah, I think it's true. Think somebody business. They get overwhelmed with social media and they're marking they want to do so much more than I enough time. They're spending tenzero plates, sometimes literally if they run a restaurant and they want to keep doing it because they want to save the money. But then they can make more money by hiring an agency to be doing better in sh I keep telling I have a friend I talked about this friend all the time on this show. Is He runs a pizza restaurant. I used to be a manager for pizza restaurants back in the old days and so I understand the industry intersting to talk. He won't hire me to run his social media for him, even though I've Hey, basically pay me a little bit and give me my kids for, you know, Free Pizza. I would I would do it for this a swap, you know, as much as we order from them. But he wants to keep doing it because they don't want to spend the money on it. But he hates it. He just despises to do it in the time it takes and he'll post something and then it's, you know, two weeks later for does anything else, and you know. So I think that's that's really key. Is like you realize you can't do it anymore on your own. You've got to find an expert to do that. Now will I'll recommend. I'll put it in the U, put a link in the COMMU. You may have seen this before. There's a website called social agency scout that you can as an agency. You can actually go register your agency on it. Everybody can who's watching this? You can. You can register your agency on here and people can find you. It's not a place for like people, you know, you can't put on there and like find clients, but they can find you on it. So just a little a little side project that I know of that we have that you can play around with and sign up for if you haven't done that, if you're an agency or if you want to do it yourself. So, yeah, I love it with I love this conversation. I love the we went through like an interesting process of you know, should you should you run ADS to get followers?...

How do you find your audience? Should you advertise on Google or social media? Should you averagiseing the sites, like, you know, being a Reddit, and then get an agencies even else you would add to this conversation about social media advertising? Yeah, social media advertising, and so for agencies is it's something we do every day and we can see from our point of view what's happening in the marketplace with a wider Lens. Whenever companies do it on their own, they have a very narrow view, and so agencies can benefit from having experiencing many, many different customers and what works for one customer doesn't mean for a client, doesn't mean that it's going to work for the next one, but it gives us new ideas and out of the box thinking that your friend, as an example, the pizza guy, may not see it because he's only concentrated on his business and he's so difficult to do marketing. Whenever you are spending already, you know, seven hours in front of the oven making pizzas, right, right, right, what he wants to think about is recipes for the next pizza, like, how can I improve service in my restaurant? All of those things. Those are legitimate concerns. Let the marketing be managed by I was an example you. So I would recommend your friend actually to I don't see there it. Yeah, I think. I think this ca I think businesses just need to realize it's an investment that's going to pay dividends. You know doubt it's not going to be an immediate sometimes because you know success doesn't happen overnight. You know people think it does, but it takes some time. You get the relationship with an agency who really can especially if you haven't figured out your target audience. It's not right way, and you get an agency like you that comes in and targets you know everything. I think that changes things so much more now. All right. Well, NYRA, I'll put a link to your website, Spring Heel digitalcom. I think somebody goes over there, what should they expect and is there any free bees, anything on you you want everybody to kind of go sign up for, listen to or anything like that? Yeah, we actually have. We probably we blow Pos, I. We call them articles, not so much block pos, where we give information about how we do things and what we think about what's happening in the marketplace. We also have a campaign checklist that we use with our own clients and it's that one. It's free to and we do have fun. A lot of more freebas to come. So you know, like how do how do develop a persona and things like that. So yeah, if you go there, we have that as in our website and then you have the links to our social media pages where you can also follow us. Well, very cool. was great getting to know you today and talking to you and you guys. Make sure you go follow on Irah wherever she's at, and and make sure, and now are you go over today to see scout and sign up your eggs. Yeah, a good thing, experiment for you as well, so I appreciate you being on the show with me today. Thank you so much for handing me a lot of fun.

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