Social Media Lab LIVE!
Social Media Lab LIVE!

Episode · 1 year ago

Don't Get Stung by Negative Comments! An Interview with Tod Maffin


Don't Get Stung by Negative Comments! An Interview with Tod Maffin

We've all had negative comments on our social media posts from time to time. But what is the best way to handle them properly?

Scott Ayres is going to interview Tod Maffin on this week's Social Media Lab LIVE to talk about the SWARM methodology he has developed to take care of all those pesky negative comments you might get!

So don't get STUNG!

Welcome to the social media lab live, a podcast powered by a Gore pole science. Got Air's the content scientists at the social media lab where we bust the miss the rumors and the stories of social media marketing with science. You can see all of our podcast interviews and listen to them and read our experiments if you run over to social media lab dot live. That's social media lab DOT Lib. If you are listening on Apple, make sure you click that little follow option now that's the only way you get new episodes now because of changes with apples. To make sure that you do that. In today's episode of Social Media Lab live I'm replaying an interview that I had with Todd maffin and we talked about his swarm like. This is buzz swarm methodology on handling negative comments on social media. We've all ran pages that got negative Commons, but what do you do with them? How do you flip them around to positive comments and make those people customers? Well, todd has science applied to his method. So take a listen to this episode of a Social Media Lab life. If you don't know who todd is, todd maffin is the president of engage q digital, a social engagement age to the helps brand such a these are big ones too, Great Cup mountain equipment, Co op, Pacific, Coastal Airlines, Abbot Pharmaceutical A, okay, tire and a whole that morning. I could probably go on and on about what todd does. But todd, welcome to the show and kind of if somebody doesn't know who you are, kind of maybe give us like your thirty to sixty second elevator piers. We kind of know and have some premise to what we're going to talk about. Sure, hi, thanks for having me on. I'm ill. I'll all of course been a huge fan of the work that you do at the lab. I married a scientist, so that's always the back of my head. You know, been in digital marketing for almost thirty years now. Since pretty much the beginning, I started coding html by hand for for corporations, netscape pages, and I been at it ever since. Spent some time as a national technology columnist for Canada's public broadcaster, which we call CBC, which is kind of like NPR but with a lot less money, and since then I've been running the agency, as you mentioned, and I do a daily podcast for digital marketers called today in digital marketing and know when to talk about so daily podcast. Now, how do you do that? How do you actually have you ever missed the day and how many episodes have you done so far? I took one day off during her right when the lockdown started to happen. I think offer that I've been on holidays and and we've got a good team here. I do it because the team handles most of the client work and that lets me kind of get away with with playing, which I to do on the podcast and have fun with it. I still have two or three, maybe three or four hours with client stuff, mostly kind of just doing us to keep your work and mapping out, planning and that sort of thing. But I certainly have a lot of fun with a podcast. But yeah, it's a lot. I think we just crossed two hundred and fifty episodes. We've been doing it for for a year now and it's been okay. Steadily. We're like weekends to or just money through Friday. What every no, it's just money to Friday. Every once in a while I'll throw in like an extended weekend edition if there's like sort of an expert that I want to talk to, but it's not like other podcast where it's, you know, we're sort of an indepth with one person. This is a newscast. It's eight minutes long. The idea is that every day is just part of your cycle, that it catches you up on everything in Seo and facebook ads and Google ads, everything you missed that day. Yeah, I was. I was on that podcast here recently. So I don't know how me talking and listen to eight minutes is. You know that's hard, but you yeah, we clipped you and then you became an extended it issue because you had so much good stuff. It's that to talk about. That's kind of hard to do. That's very calm. I've always thought. I tried in the daily podcast for a while, but then he is so hard. Once you missed a few, your guilt kind of comes in. You're like, oh no, I miss and then you forget to get back over... so Kudos to you for for doing so many podcasts in ro we had we had travis from Pod Dicks on the show last week talking all about how to get started in podcasting. So that's great. Cool to see you succeed in that. So we're going to talk about negative comments and how you've come up with this thing called swarm. Now here's here's some of it's called the swarm methodology. And here's another cool thing, and I'm playing around with restream as we go. I can, I uploaded this. I can change the background to our bees. I pulled that off of your your website. So like that's in the kind of stuff you can do with restream. But yeah, I love the be thing to be analogy. So, Kenna, if we're talking about SWARMOUTH, swarn thing, how did you come up with this? What was the idea? Where did you get started and why did you feel like you had to come up with a way to deal with negative comments on social this started from a podcast that I did a long, long time ago. I was one of the first podcasters in the world. I think I had the eleventh podcast in history. If YOU GO BACK TO STEVE JOBS UP ON STAGE INTRODUCING ITUNES for seven, which is when they launched their version of podcasting, I'm like, in the itunes list on the stage behind him is in the top ten, only in the top ten because they were only like or thirteen podcast at the time, and that was for a podcast I did called the how to do stuff podcast and the idea behind it was I would just need to be normal people about stuff that they did that I personally found interesting. One of the ones that I did was I did an episode on how to get upgraded on Air Canada without any certificates. Back in the day, you they would mail you certificates based on how much you traveled. Then you use it to upgrade. Long Story Short, it was not quite an ethical procedure. You basically had to kind of lie that you had one and then it show up on a full flight and claim you couldn't find it. So it was a little sleezy. I'll grab you for the first two or three weeks when in the podcast episode went out, nothing happened. It was it was just fine, and then all of a sudden this warm of angry commentaries started attacking, and so how I chose to respond eventually informed the model that we use at engage q right now. We handle the engagement in moderation you mentioned for some fairly big brands, government agencies, shopping centers and so on, and so you know, we had to develop a way, a consistent way of handling those kinds of things that they happen, negative reviews, bad comments and so on, and so swarm ended up coming from that. I liked it. there. Now the there's a harder you said a swarm off negative comments came in. So do you originally like automatically start thinking I got to wait, I can make something fun out of this. And now it was very stressful what it was happening. You know, I didn't have that many listeners. There weren't that many podcast listeners. Like that really a thing and in terms of, you know, the world experience? So so, no, it was. It was fairly stressful. But you know, I mean the thing that sort of cemented it for me, for for it being a swarm, was that I was able to find where they all gathered. And what it turns out is that someone had written an article on this on this board called Flyer talk, which is like a one of those forums. And so you know, if you consider that kind of the HIVE, right, that's that's where the swarm started. And you could ask the swarm like if you're all the sudden attact like we're, you don't want to say where you're hive because they're not going to understand the metaphor but you can say that where did you all come from? And so you know, once I found the hive of where this warm of scoring from, then I was able to sort of read what they had seen and develop something from there. So what is I mean? What's the downside of one maybe negative comments and to not handling correctly? Well, this to primary issues. One is algorithmic and the other is is from a brand point of view. The algorithmic impact on you is substantial, depending on the on the different channels that you're talking about. But you know, we'll use facebook instagram as a primary channel. When you have negative content comment, there's a category of artificial artificial intelligence called semantic intelligence, or it's basically where they're trying to understand the language or try to understand what what the words mean. And so when there are a series of negative comments in a row or when it perceives that a particular post has gotten negative, even if you're not getting what facebook calls a negative report right, which is hide, smam those sorts of things, it still understands the...

...language that's being used. In their language of all is from time to time, so it's not perfect. Example, you like to uses the word sick. So you know, if if it's a young person talking about these running shoes are sick, that's positive. If you're a restaurant and it's a forty five year old woman who says I got sick, that's say more completely different contact. So you know, the algorithms aren't perfect, but algorithmically speaking, that's one very negative benefit and then impacts your reach, that impacts your price of the ad marketed back, all sorts of stuff. I see Luke Elliott in here, Luke and and John Luomur, both incredible brains in that space. If you have a chance to get to John loomers power hitters club, really solid information looks in there all the time and he can walk you through that. The other issue in terms of the negative aspect, because I mentioned is brand. You know, I mean just want to impact your brand and if your brand, which I always perceive a brand to be a promise that you give consumers, if your promises that you're going to handle things and then the and then the comments end up being negative, then you've broken that brand trust. Yeah, and we found like there's an interesting thing. I didn't discuss this with you beforehand, but we did a test on the impact of negative comments on ads on facebook. Like what did? What happened that sentiment? So, like we ran a test of the first ad. Had a bunch of positive, fluffy comments that we added or we had people go and add. We ran into the identical add again to a different audience a little bit later and added negative stuff like you suck, you guys are awful, blah, Blah Blah. And for one the engagement was much less. The reactions were awful. We got a lot, a lot more negative reactions from other people and then the click through right was like something like twenty thirty percent lower when we had negative comments this left on our on our post that we weren't even addressing. We just let him sit there. So it's kind of interesting thing that people like Rebecca's saying here, you know she she finds that people get braver and leave meet more negative comments now allow quicker. There's that. There's that have swarm ment out like a couple negative comments. Oh it's okay for me to go leave a negative comment, and we saw that on that test. The other issue as well with the Algorithm is it. It is it, it refeeds itself. So if it begins to see a bunch of negative comments, it will show those comments to people in your social graph, to your friends, so then they'll see the negative comes, they'll jump into it as well, and it's it's kind of a unique thing to facebook. It doesn't really happen on instagram or linked in, and it's a problem. Well, let's dive in. If you're just hop it over and watching where we're talking todd about his swarm methodology. I finally got the word right on how did the handle negative comments? And this is going to be probably the easiest, but I call Ros or run a show for me, because we're just going to go through swarm actually stands for something, and so we're just going to walk through each one on a todd kind of let you explain them to everybody as much as you want. So the s stands for speak like a human. So what does that mean? Sure, and I should say just just before we get into that, very briefly, these are indeed five steps and in fact these can be run as five sentences. So as you're listening to these five, you can actually go through them sentence by sending this a sentence for sentence for W and if you hit all five. You know, the goal of this is not just a quiet down negative comments, but to convert those we call them minimated mattants here at the company, but convert those people into brand advocates for you. So the goal is not just to shut them up, it's not just a quite down. The issue is to go one step further and to turn them into advocate. So speak like a human you know, when people go on to social media they want to complains about something, it's because they want to be heard and they feel attacked or insulted or affected personally and they want some change to happen. And so that's a person having that conversation. So you, as the brand representative, should also let them see that there's a person behind it. Too often we use we and us as a way of kind of shielding ourselves from it. I give you a really good example. One of our clients is a is a major recycling program administered by a by a government, and they frequently will get negative comments in there. But you know, how come the recycling fees only twenty cents and it should be thirty cents and stuff like that. And so if we or a better example is you know, I didn't get.

I didn't get the credit when I when I got when I returned it, I didn't get what I should have gotten. So our goal, then, is to try to connect with them as a human being. So one way you do that is I statements, me statements. So the first things out of our mouth is, I'm so sorry to hear that. By the way, we have tested I'm sorry and I'm so sorry and we have found that I'm so sorry resonate stronger. Don't know why. It's probably just because it's not use that much. It has more emotions. So we almost always go with that and then, you know, let me see if I can can fix that. So you know you don't want to use language. That's that's that's that's to corporate. You know, one word that we would frequently use is yikes. You know, if you want to use a word that that a human being with we you know, Yikes. I'm so sorry to hear this happen. You know, this isn't the this isn't what we strive for. So language, language is very important. The only caveat to this is when you're picking things like like Yikes and so on. You know, when we first get started with a client. We have a brand briefing. Most of that, I mean there's all sorts of stuff that you know, like who's your contact and so on, but a lot of that meeting, in fact most of it, is around the voice and tone of the brand. So you know, some brands would use yikes and some wouldn't. We work with with shopping centers. One shopping center killed on in place it Whin a peg blue collar young families. That's very different language than another shopping center. We work with Oakridge Center in Vancouver where the primary audience is older Asian ladies. Very different tones. Right. That's interesting. So just the whole I mean that's in it. What you would think speak like a human would make common sense, but I think people like you you have some examples now. I'll post a link to it later, of the whole method written now. But sometimes we tend to talk corporate talk and talk to that. I don't like a robot to people and don't really just have a oneone fun conversation with them and kind of turn it around. So the fact that you're speaking like a human immediately disarms people. I think so to Ya, and don't get defensive. So, and I think that's part of the as well, is is soonce you get defensive, it's like man, people get all been out of shape. So so the first thing, and then swarm methodology, is speak like a human. Anything else you want to talk about on that one? I think that's it. It covers that me. You'll post a link to to the actual article. There's some specific examples in there of how we would structure that particular section. But yeah, I think that's that covers most of it all right. So the second, obviously, would be I going to find the W, the W win win. Now this one doesn't really say much yet to me, so I kind of know we're probably going to go to. What is win win mean? We're talking about Dylan of negative comments. When people complain about something on social media, it is because they want some action to occur other than you've been heard. So a really good example of this is when you I'm going to I'm going to pick on Air Canada, because there I'm in Canada and they're terrible a customer relations and so you know when you write to them you'll get this kind of generic saying thank you for your feedback, kind of thing, but I don't have any expectation or am I being told that any action has happened. So part of the swarm methodology is giving that person a win, and what I mean by a win is some action that has occurred as a result of their comment. That action, here's the dirty little secret, can be almost anything, right. So here's an example. Imagine that you imagine that you own a restaurant and for whatever reason, the building, Your Inn, is a heritage building and it's not accessible to people with mobility issues, for people in wheelchairs. So someone in a wheelchair comes along and says, I really wanted to to use your your restaurant today, but everyone you know there's no way for me to get it. So one of the things that you can do is you can try to aim for a win. I feel me us a better example is that you have an elevator, but it's people that are perfectly able bodied who are taking who are taking that right instead of them taking the stairs, and so they jam it up so that there's no room for a person of the wheelchair. So in that case, what do you do? What's The win? Well, I mean you could you if you're a restaurant you wouldn't want... do this, but one win could be give her free meals for a year her. That's a terrible win to give them because it impacts you negatively from profit point of view. Right. What are they? What does she want? She doesn't actually want free meals. She wants some action to occur based on her feedback, so that action can be as simple as and again, me savements. Thank you for this. I'm going to raise this with our operations manager first thing Monday morning, or I'm going to walk this in to our executive director right now. Some action has been taken. So if you're listening closely to the language, that's a step beyond. Thank you for the feedback. Or will look into it. It's a little bit beyond. It's here's how I'm going to look into it. I'm going to raise this with the marketing meeting first thing tomorrow. I have placed this on the agenda for our operations call next week. Thank you for letting US know about this. Right, so some action, and so that's why it's it's a win and a win. They get a win, they get some actual action that has occurred as a results of their feedback, beyond just the usual blowoff. Thank you for your feedback and you get a win because you are now beginning to move them down the line toward brand advocacy. Yeah, yeah, at that when I think it's funny because you talk about restaurant and I used to. I used to run some restaurants and pizza buffing places. So the first time something bad habit, I'll say they got a bad pizza. You know, we initially one go okay, well, here, here's a free cupon you know, maybe it makes them feel okay in the first but didn't solve the problem and it's a lot for me. I'm losing money. So I like your idea of of the win, win, like they didn't cost him any money to go email somebody about the in you have a great picture on the website of a negative comment relating to the wheelchair and they the elevator. The woman in that photos, my wife, by the way, we didn't really is paraplegic. But I think the idea of okay, yeah, we're sorry, we're going to fix this and give and in. Then you have to get to follow up, I'm sure later on. Here's what we did. Please come back you can. You know those sort of things are going to have to come into play. But it's a win way because then, if you get him back, they're paying customer and their loyal Fan and then they love you, and so it's right. Just a free cupe on. They're going to lose it in the car. They're still going to write negative be about you somewhere else on social they might say they get me free Mil cool, but that doesn't really help you on the long run and my opinion anyway. Yeah, and and just to give you an example, this is in is in the blog post, but you know one of our we work with a lot of shoppings, that is there's one shopping center on the West Coast of Canada which had, you know, those kiosks in the malls, and they sell things like skin creams and things like that. There's one guy that was selling skin cream. What he was doing was he was very aggressive. He was as women would pass by his his thing he would grab their hand and, like without their permission, slatted this cream on them. So you'll see this in the blog post. We just got flooded with complaints about this because again, the facebook algorithm picked up and started showing the complaints to more people. So if you look in the you'll see the responses that we used in there. If you look in the Oh and there's, there's the link that you just posted. We're not actually saying we're going to kick him out or we're going to, you know, remove him or anything. The only action that we took there was we're going to I'm going to address this with our operations manager tomorrow. That was it, and that worked just because it was some action. In the end they eventually did kick him out, but you know that the action that was taken. Was that right? All right. So let's move on to a and this may answer someone asked the question. I wouldn't going to ask you of but yet I think we maybe can addressed it there in this one. Avoid a public fight on when it comes to negative Commons. What's some advice there? This one to means common sense, but I see, I especially see some local businesses really bad where they'll argue with somebody like stop it. So what what's your advice? You're in avoid in the public fight. So we have two rules of thumb at engage Q. First is you will never win tit for tat. If you're going back and forth, back and forth. You, as the brand, will lose one hundred percent. You will always lose in that instance. So you just don't ever really want to want to get into it. The other rule of thumb that we use is is what we internally called they have that.

They've had their say, we've had our say. Right, so they've complained about something. You may not necessarily get resolution, they may not accept the win that you're offering them, they may still be angry, but you don't want to keep going back and forth in the public space. They've had their say, you've had yours. A do not let them draw you in to a tit for tat. Well, you said the wheelchair sleet would ramp would be available next week. No, we didn't. We said this week. No, I have it right here. Well, well, you're reading it. Liken me, just goes on forever. Right. So you have your say, they have their say. If you need to follow up, you do that offline. You move them offline. Some some tools like a go a pulse is great at this kind of stuff, right where you can take the you can take the the chat on twitter rises and just direct them into a into a twitter DM. Very simple to do on facebook. So, you know, use the the powerful tools that are in platforms, like a girl pulse to be able to move that stuff along, and so we would say, you know, I'm so sorry that happened. If you're watching the SWA so far. So thank you for letting me know about this. I'm so sorry that happened. I'm going to address this first thing tomorrow morning with our marketing team. If you have anything else you'd like to add, sorry, I don't mean that to be the middle finger. Use as well. If you have anything else you want to add to this or if there's anything else we should know, please pm ne or please DM this account or please email me. Here's my email address. Right, we want to take that tip for TAT and move it offline, because here's the issue. You know, the Algorithms, as I mentioned, facebook especially will amplify tip for Tad because facebook sees discussion happening and it's like, Oh, this is great, I'm gonna looks like there's some constructive stuff happening, so I'm going to show it to even more people, which you don't want, necessarily, doubt, to have out there. Yeah, and I think you're interesting. Analogy on this on the blog post is. You know, when B see one be attack in something, then other bees start to see it and they start to swarm in and it becomes a huge fight. So you've you got, you know, Susie over here, you know, arguing with your brand. Well, SUSIE's friend start see they're going to take susie side and it's they're me too, or here's what happen when I went there. Then you're you're in this firestorm. You can't get the bees off your head and that always remember the tool rules. You will never win a tit for taft ever, ever, ever, ever, you'll you'll simply never win it and and move that discussion offline. Now, what about like you know, you see this sometimes a big brands, you know, who get away with being snarky and someone these a negative comment, they'll just snark back. I think a windy's all the time. Yes, he's is so famous for that. They don't really care. Didn't seem like. How did they get away with it? Maybe where there's people don't. Yeah, so those, those are a kind of a category at their own. I would call them troll from marketing purposes. They're not really trolling people. It's a marketing ploy right. I mean everyone who, people who tweet, I think I've done it too. Actually, people who who go in and tweet, you know, hey, Wendy's roast me know what they're getting into, because the whole point of that account is is to be roasted. That's different than you know, like you wouldn't expect. will be a good example. You wouldn't expect southwest airlines to respond in that way. You wouldn't expect Nordstrom to respond in that way. If they did, the corporate manager should be fired. But again, it comes it comes down to the brand. You know we have. We have a lot more. One of the companies that we work with that you mentioned off the top is the Great Cup. That's the Super Bowl of Canada, right. It's the National National Football Championship. So we've worked with them and we work with the Vancouver Sun run, which is the largest road racing in the country, the largest like marathon type thing. So they're very different brands, right, so that the bank or Sun run, fiftyzero runners in there. We're getting a lot of stuff for for us to moderate and and they expect...

...a kind of a kind of a professional, clean family run kind of a voice. The Great Cup, a little bit a little bit more jockey, a little bit more poking fun, a little bit more edgy. It's football, you know, a little bit more room to grow in there. So you have different voices that you want to use, but unless you are a troll for marketing account, don't do what Wendy's is doing. Yeah, I don't think you can get away with it. Luke asking, and this is where we maybe this ties in here. Do you have a point of view of win to just hide or delete, you know, some sort of negative comment? Is there ever a place we want to take a private as there? Is there a point where you just got deleting get off of your account, and does that make you look worse or what? Are you sure? Yeah, so where? So the floor flow charts that we use with clients are actually for axes, for quadrons, hide, delete, escalate and ban. They all have their kind of all different purposes. We rarely deploy the bottom of three. We you know, the issue with with deleting and banning is that the person can see that you've deleted them and can tell that they've been banned and that just causes a whole other Messi. Of problems as well. Hiding is something that we will employ if it contains information that may mislead people that we can't specifically combat. So those are really case by case basis. That depends on the individual client. But remember that hides can be detected by the person hiding. Just in case you're aware, and we're talking specifically about facebook in this case, is that that's you know, twitter has its own hide replies function, although can I just say twitter's hide replies function, which is just been launched in the last few months, hilariously now, when there's a tweet where the replies have been hidden right, it pops up this giant window that's like tweet have been hidden, you can find them at this button and it's like it's the last thing you need to if you're trying to hide. Anyway, I didn't know that facebook. facebook hiding is different than I think most people realize. When you hide a tweet, that, excuse me, a comment on facebook, that that comment is still visible to the commenter. So they think that it's still there. And all of the commenters facebook friends as well, so you're not hiding it for everyone. You're only hiding it from people but outside of their social graph. So you have to kind of no going in, whether or not you know should would it picked up there? So it limits the spread but doesn't restrict this bread. Yeah, and the thing I read into we did that test on the ads to was like you'll get it. You'll see an ad and especially on the ads I see this morning anything it'll say seventy five comment. You're like, Oh, this must be either something controversial on here or it's a cool product. And then you go to read the comments and there's like to yes, because facebook is still shown, there's are a lot of comments. But yeah, they hit a whole bunch of them and it needs a marketer. I know immediately what's happened. Yeah, you know someone has complained or argued and there just someone's going there and hiding all of it. So I mean for for us, we run our tests on the AD anyway. You know, we just found it just delete them was easier because they didn't give that weird negative sentiment when people went over to it. But on something like this, is a public post in generally maybe you just hide it, but you just got to know that other people know something's up. Well, and one thing just just to be aware of in case you are doing that for your own brand and you see like seventy five comments but only like ten or showing. There is one instance where it may not be deleted comments and that is when people it's just simply tag a person. And that said, so the default sort for facebook comments is something that they call most relevant, and what that really means is they're going to filter out stuff that it thinks isn't really a comment that people would want to read. Almost all of those are when people just tag a friend in the comments to bring them over. In the default most relevant sort, those don't appear. So you may see only four comments when it's showing thirty comments, in which case twenty seven of them are are you know. But if you just go to all comments or newest comments, if you just change that sort and indeed it's still fewer than it showing, then... that case there's been some deleting or hiding happening. Very cool. All Right, so we've gotten through its Wa the swarm. Now we're going to move on to the R right, the wrong. So is about this one. Every once in a while someone will be right, someone will be correct in terms of what they need to do. Sometimes when they're when they're complaining about something, it may be an issue that they've gotten wrong. So we'll go back to the example of the woman with the wheelchair who post something on the example that we use in the blog post is I use a wheelchair. I tried getting into your restaurant on Friday. Your elevator was packed with people who are perfectly capable of taking the stairs. Plus, it's out of order half the time. Hashtag fail. So, first of all, Hashtag fail makes me concerned. She's posted that on facebook. The fact that she's put a Hashtag in there makes me concern that maybe she's cross posted this to twitter or instagram or another more pro hashtag platform. But she's made a statement in here. It says plus, the elevator is out of order half the time. If you know that that's not factually correct, you need to correct that because other people in her community, in her social graph right, remember that this person's social graph. She uses a wheelchair from ability. It's very likely that she has friends who also are in that community, and so if they come along and they then see, there you go perfect. If they come along and they then see a wait a minute, this woman is reporting that the elevators out of order half the time and the restaurant has not corrected that, then it's on the record and people will believe that. So you still need to politely correct issues like that. So you know and you use the same sort of feedback us like a human being. You would say, you know, depending on the brand, we might try to insert a little bit of a little bit of selfdeprecating humor in there. We might say something like, you know, our elevator is a little clunky sounding, but it's not usually out of order at all. Or you know, it's true, our elevator was built, you know, ten years ago. Things ran a little bit slower, but it doesn't go out of order. So you can use a little bit of humor, but it's important to correct the record because if you don't, then other people who come along and read that will assume it to be true, and that is why the break point of the A in swarm avoid a public fight, must occur after the correction. Right. So this acrinium should probably be Aswr am. So you want to if there's an area you want to correct the record and then try and pull them offline because if you don't, people will assume that it's that. It's just that way. Yeah, I think that's I think I like your comment about addressing it like if they're just wrong, you know, Oh yeah, our eldervator. What is fine, it's just it's slow. It that kind of takes a little bit off of you and maybe they understand a little bit more. So, yeah, I think that's an interesting I love that photo to so I had to show it on on screen there. So I use that in my keynote speeches and she cringes every time, but I'm not taking it down. That's yeah, I'm sure she's probably thinking now no one will ever see this and they're very on everything now, so anything else would write the Rhine. Other advice? Any easy ways to write the wrong that you've seen, or are maybe bad ways they've seen people try to attempt it. The worst thing to do is just to not do it at all, and that's what I see most often as people not correcting the record, people ignoring a comment. You know, it's one thing to necessarily me. I mean maybe if you're flooded with the bunch of stuff. It's one thing to ignore. You know well shopping malls. This happens all the time where people are just mad that the Wi fi speed is slow. I mean will, we will still respond to those, but a lot of brands don't, and that's okay if you don't want to do that. But if you're saying the WIFI is slow and it costs money, but it doesn't cost money, you have to go and correct that. That's that's a good point there. All right. So we're going to move on to the last part of swarm and that's the end. This is one that I think brands fill out a lot, but some brains do it really well. Some dought is make friends. So what is we've already kind of we done. We spoke like a human. We've done win...

...wins, we've avoid the public fight. We're righting the wrongs. How do you make friends with people who kind of, at the moment, I don't like you a whole lot because they're mad about something? How do you kind of switch that? You hit it right on the head with the phrase at the moment. So there needs to be a little bit of time for this. Next step to happen, and this is the part of the swarm method which will work on the component of the objective, which is to convert them to brand advocates. So the first four are really trying to correct, you know, trying to mitigate the negative response. This final step is the part that tries to move them over, and this can occur months later, by the way. I'm so often what we will do is we will say, after we sort of gone back and forth, hopefully this has been offline while this is has been going on, we might ask if we can get back to them in a few months to see if they've noticed a change. So the case of the of the in the blog post you'll see the example of the Kiosk Dow to the shopping mall. That was just slathering skin creame on. So in our responses we were saying, would it be okay with you if, after a month or two, or actually I think it was a few weeks in that case, we get back to you and check up to make sure that that it's gotten better? I have, I cannot stress this enough. You should you, if you promise that, you should follow through with that. However, I'll say this. The simple fact that you have even taken that extra step immediately puts you in the top one percent of brands who care or don't care. Right. It moves you into the CUND and nobody else does that. No, but what we do that for crimes, but nobody does that. Right. So, so it's like I'd like, this is really important to us that we get this right. You know I'm going to. So thank you for your feedback. I'm so sorry that happens. I'm going to raise this tomorrow morning on the operations team meeting. That's the specific action as the win. If you have anything else you'd like to add, please DM me here. Also, I'd like to follow up in a month or two to see if to see if there's bit of change and the way you handle this could be very simple. You know, in a Gore a pulse it's super easy. You just add like a label or a tag for that particular issue. You know, if it's better access for wheelchairs, it's accessibility. If it's a restaurant, you might have a tag called gluten free. If it's a patio, might have a tag for a patio or outdoor. If the website is too hard to understand. You might have a tag for website and so you put people into the those groupings. Whether you use the labeling or the tag system that the girl pulse has is the use your own system whatever. Sometimes you could do it an email. Just create a label in Gmail or you know holder, and then you follow up, you get back to them. So in the case of the and we like to follow up with some kind of quantitative and qualitative measurement. So weave. This might be getting too far into the weeds, but in the case of that, of that due to slathered on the skin cream, what he would what we did was we said we'd like to follow up with you. Would that be okay? Some people responded yes, some people didn't. We followed up with them anyway, unless they specifically said no, please don't, and we said, you know, it's been a month or so, here's the action that we took. By then we could report that we that we threatened. Essentially, that guy was threatened with being removed from them all that one, but he got removed later. I'd like to know what your feelings have been. Have you noticed a difference and could you rank it on this scale? One it's gotten worse to no difference. Three, it's gotten better. For it's much better, I feel much safer or whatever. Almost everyone, and by the way, very few people will get back to you. So just be aware of that. Don't expect it. If you're messaging fifty people because of some big issue, you might expect five or six people to get back to you. So bigger very few people will. But the fact, but they see, when they see that in the Inbox, that reminds them these people actually care, someone actually made a point of following up. That is how you convert them over to Brandad because he plus that numbering system. Not only do you have some qualitative information to provide to your boss, your client, you've also got a numbering system. Right. You can say here's what it used to be, here's what it is. There's been a seventy two percent increase in positive sentiment. A lot of executives like numbers like that, so you can provide it with with something as simple as that.

Yeah, I think it's a good I like to cinnamon analysis ode of just kind of scene where they're at. Maybe even hey, here's what you're writing at the end and then, hey, you followed up. What are you rate at now? I mean we all do that with APPS. I know we have a sentiment analysis on scale like one. The time I figure what's called. You'd like the scale one, the ten. You know, eight or above is great. Everything else you wish, you you really want. You want at least at a. So I think that's that's a good way to do it. If and I think the key there you mentioned, is figure out a way to follow up, and whether that's tagging him and something like a Gore poles or like an emails like and I forget the APP that I use, boomerang like it's boom boomerang. Great. Yeah, I use boomerang and Gmail and I can. I can send an email to somebody and then go into boomerang with while before I can send the email. Remind me in a reply and five days, seven days, whatever, and then it'll pop back up the top of my inbox in Gmail and say, you know, it's been seven days, you want to reply and I keep it, dismiss it or go back in and reply. So there's ways for you to make sure you follow up and that's going to be the key, because you tell somebody I'm going to follow with you in the month and you don't they you look just you've gone back to the very beginning this whole process and I'm going to start over and you definitely need to make friends in the block closer that Dev has just kind of linked there, you'll see the actual email that I send to people, in the case of that Kiosk Fender, obviously with a couple of things redacted, but you can use that as a template if you wanted to. You'll also see one of the responses that we got back from someone who said, I appreciate this so much. Most establishments would shrug their shoulders, but you're gracious. Your graciousness means a lot to me. That particular woman was one of the angriest at the beginning, and so she has moved through the sentiment funnel of addressing the issue and converting her to a brand advocate, which is the goal to go and again, the goal is not just to shut people up. The goal is to convert them to someone who talks positively about your brand, and I think that, I think that's crucial. What you just said. They're you're not just trying to we're not just saying shut people up until eak their comments and move on and brush them off. You know, some people might do that through massive companies or politicians. Will leave that one open for you, but you can't do that most brands. You've got to fige out a way to make the stain right, to kind of write the ship make them good cause, because everybody's watching. That's the things. Everybody's watching this and if you don't do it right then it's just going to continue and get out of control. The worst thing, I think, is I'll see brands all the time not addressing their negative comments and I'm like, what are you doing? You got fifty negative comments right now and nobody's touching it for a week because they haven't even bothered to to engage us all. Here recently on a restaurant here local where I'm at, they just weren't monitoring it and I'm like, oh my gosh, you guys got to get in here. I messerged like hey, you need help with community management? I know somebody, so I think you got it. You've got to do that because everybody, like you said, that'swarm mentality comes in really, really fast and you've got to to definitely address so if you're not addressing specific kind of things. You know you can use you can use the tagging. I mean this is why, this is why a platform we and I'll just go back to the girl puls since you know obviously they're sponsor. But I mean it's a good example of kind of using that kind of additional layer of a third party tool because you can add sentiment tag so what we do with our clients is we will have a four axes of sentiment, positive, negative, question and neutral. Every comment get almost every comment gets one of those. And then a topic as well. So a topic would be, you know, it's different for every client. Santa, Oh my God, Santa A, shopping centers, but the cant get me started. If you want to ruin your life Christmas, run social media comment management for is that Santa, mall hours, covid nineteen, so on and so that way, at the end of each month you can provide your boss, your client with a grid of saying. You know, listen, negative comments about Santa have increased thirty five percent year over year. Right, you've got that kind of data and because that's consolidated on a third party tool, it's easy to kind of pop those things in if a wants to kind of find you, what's what's the best place to find you these days? The podcast is probably...

...easiest, which is today in digitalcom or you can use your podcast. Happen. Just search for today and digital marketing. Or our company, which is engage qcom, is a I'm just taught at engage qcom. Very cool. Well, I appreciate you being on the show with us and I look forward to maybe take in your eight minute podcast and doing a bonus edition with you again. Yeah, and I hope everybody the whole goal here. I hope everybody's watching and watches the replay. You you apply this method that todds mentioned and how to engage negative comments and turn those into positives and make those people your fans and ambassadors. That's really the ultimate goal. And again he'll tim goal, tadcast. So's not appreciate you. You being on the show, with the stick around behind the scenes. THAT WILL BE RUN BACK TANKS.

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