Social Media Lab LIVE!
Social Media Lab LIVE!

Episode · 1 year ago

How to Level Up Your Business with Eric Siu

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

How To Grow Your Business

Episode #101 of the Social Media Lab features the 1 and only Eric Siu!!!

 

We're gonna talk about leveling up your business, your brand, your mindset, your social media and more.

Who is Eric Siu?

Eric Siu is the CEO of content intelligence software ClickFlow, which helps you grow your traffic while looking like a genius.

He also owns ad agency Single Grain and has worked with companies such as Amazon, Airbnb, Salesforce and Uber to acquire more customers.

He hosts two podcasts: Marketing School with Neil Patel and Leveling Up, which combined have over 30 million downloads to date.

What is the Social Media Lab LIVE?

Social Media Lab LIVE is hosted by me, Scott Ayres, the Content Scientist at the Social Media Lab.

It’s a weekly show where I talk about social media marketing with expert guests and is always testing something!!!

I use Restream to power all of my live shows on Facebook and YouTube.

Get started with Restream for free at www.restreamlive.com

With Restream Studio, you can:

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— Host interviews, Q&As, or podcasts

Hello and welcome to the social media lab live podcast. I'm Scott Airs, the content scientists at the social media lab where we bust a miss the rumors and the stories of social media marketing with science. You can see everything we've done in the social media lab over at Social Media Lab dot live. That takes you over to our interviews that I've done the last year or so on the social media lab live show. You can also go to Gor post labcom and see the rest of the story, as Paul Harvey used to say. On this episode I got to interview one of my favorite people in podcasting and in marketing, Eric Suit. If you don't know who Eric Sue is and stop this podcast and go away because you're not paying attention to marketing. He and Neil Patel have a show called marketing school dot ioh and to daily podcast about all about marketing tips. Eric is a part of single grain and tons of other things and he is now got a book called level up and today on this episode we're going to talk about how to level up your business, how to take your business, regardless of what it is, is, and level it up kind of with a gaming mindset. So think back to Mario brothers or Mario when he played it back in the old days. Like you, you went across, you jump in the on the flag and get the dude and you level up. You got the coins and stuff. That's what Eric's mindset is when it comes to business, when it comes to life, when it comes to anything, and his application of that to us as marketers can really change what we do. And we talk fast and this interview and we have lots of fun. But hold on, hold on, watch this, listen and watch this twice and pend on where you're listening and watching this that and soaked in everything that Eric'Su has to tell. Is On this week's episode of the Social Media Lab live. I'm going to bring on our guests. His name is Eric Sue and if you don't know who Eric is, I'm not real big on reading BIOS, but if you don't know who Eric is, I think you haven't been paying attention, probably to marketing. He's a CEO of the software called Clickflow, which is a content intelligence software, and he owns an a added se called single grain and he he hos two podcast one leveling up and then probably the one podcast that I typically never miss is is the the marketing school with Neil pittail. If you want like a quick, just digestible nugget daily, you got to subscribe to the podcast that...

Eric does with Neil. It's just it's one of the one of my favorite. I go out there and I listen. I'll listen to all podcasts on like one and a half to two times speed, so it's an even faster podcast than the typical show. So, Eric, thank you for coming on social media lab live today. Thanks for having me. Scott and a beauty's apologized for a background telling Scott I just moved to Miami from La so it's still very much a work in progress. So well, it looks pretty good. So I mean you got last bright light. Is The beach right behind you? Well, I there's a lot of light. Will just put it that with. The beach is the other way, but I can see a lot of land that way. So yeah, very cool. Well, I kind of, you know, introduce you a little bit there, but I want to dive into a little bit about what you did in the past and then maybe a little bit what you do right now. You were a big Gamer back in the day esports. Tell us what that was and kind of what your accomplishments were in that gaming industry kind of how that got you into business. Yeah, sure, so I kind of did esports before it became a thing. So I was really playing games from, you know, six years old to probably twenty two years older. So so a lot of my life, a lot of how I look at things, is very much driven by Game Theory. It's driven by a lot that I learned. Right, the COMADI write, the competition communication, all that's, all that type of stuff. And I would say one of the Games that really made a big impact in my life I was talking about yesterday. Actually we're measuring out this room to get a cool background like yours. Right, so we're talking about a little games as you play, and the game that had the biggest impact on my life would probably be a request, and most people don't know what that is, but ever quest was the precursor to world of warcraft. Without ever quester is the world of warcraft. So I played all those games, but really, you know, want one titles. I learned to join that you had to join the best team to do the most amazing things in the world. Same thing in the world of business, right, you have to join the best teams. It's all about people. And so, you know, played a lot of other games, counterstrike, DOTA, all these other ones that are still actually relevant today. And again, I think they're still a stigma tied towards gaming. But to me, life is just a game and that's how I view that. That's my lens on life in general. And I think business is the ultimate game, right, and I just enjoy playing it every single day. And for me I feel like I'm tap dancing to work every day. Right. This is a warm buffet expression. So that's kind of what the summary is. And you know, business is my game now. So now, did you like competing like global competitions in the sports or is it just all online or yeah, so we yeah, I was when I was playing, you know, team forgers or counterstrike or even, you know, warcraft or your starcraft, I would join these guilds or teams and we would compete in matches with other people and you wouldn't championship, but I mean the prize pools were really nothing compared to what they are now. And Yeah, I mean again, it taught you that, hey, like, if you want to do good things, like, you know, you either have to upgrade your team or also the same thing with upgrade yourself...

...constantly, because it's a very, very competitive world. Very true. Now, the other thing you did, and it's this one excites me a little bit, is you used to P I didn't know this. used to play poker professionally. Yeah, so I mean quote unquote professionally, but I in college I only played world of warcraft and pokers. I almost flunked out my first year and yeah, I'd six withdrawals and two F's, I think, something like that, and so subject to dismissal. And I I played poker almost ten, probably ten twelve hours a day, if not a little more than that, and you know, went into debt early my freshman sophomore year. But after that I was making, you know, seventy eighty grand a year, right, so, quote unquote professional, but for me at the time, being kind of a late teenager, that was all the money in the world. So that's not what was it was a Texas hold them. What was the game? Yeah, it was. It was hold them, and this was during the kind of online poker boom. So yeah, you know, one year I did really well while I was kind of a top one percent tournament player in the world, right, so I just couldn't stop, you know, winning. I think I just got really lucky, but that's what it was. I remember. What is it like? Probably, Oh, five, those six. That's when, like the online poker well brees, when money maker one and then it just exploded. Yeah, that's right, money may because I get way in the online poker like I can remember, member, you know, having four screens at my desk and being up at night to like three or four in the morning playing all these tables and got really good at it. Had One year, you know, I'm made pretty good amount of money, you know, for a part time side. They like I made thirty, Fortyzero, just you're playing poker online, right. And then, of course they got where they crashed it and you couldn't do the money online. And in the US I think it's come back around now a little bit. It's you still can't do it in the US that much, but like it's just weird because other countries you can. But I mean poker actually taught me a lot about life in general. Do you see some of the best investors in the world? They all play poker together. I mean the all in podcast with Moss, probably Hapatia, David Sack, all these tech people. It's called all in, like they all play poker together, right, there's a reason for that. And so and Brian Fans. Oh, you probably know Brian. You know he's to be professional poker player as well. And it's Keyno speaker everywhere, and it's kind of that same mindset. I I got to for me, like poker is the tail, especially in person. Poker online was so different. You it's had to know the cards and no numbers. But in person the tails for people. I can tell people when they're I know, and someone's lying or they're trying to get away with something. You like, Oh, I see what you're doing. You know. It's so people can't get my kids especially, can't get away with anything because I played poker these days. Yeah, I mean more than more, I would say. You know more than anything. I personally learned the value of bankroll management, right, not a not over extending yourself, and also understanding when you're hot, so they strike when the iron's hot, and also understanding, you know, kind of table dynamics and all that. To your point, right. So it very much does teach a lot about investing and you know not needing to swing for this every single...

...time. Right. So do you still play now? I can't. Any time I try to. Any time I tried to play a game, I just start thinking about business more because there's so many games available to me in business. I have a lot of you want to create as many options as you can so you can play whatever games, because I get bored easily. Right. So like here just keeps swishing whenever I want. Yeah, yeah, definitely, I can understand. And now tell us a little bit about clickflow. That's one of your companies. What does clickflow do? What can someone get out of that if they go over there? Yeah, so clickflow is easiest way to look at it is we call it content intelligence software, and what it does is a couple things, right. So if you're writing content, I'll tell you the right keywords that you should be inserting. So there's a handful of tools that can do that. You know, we're probably to add an element of gpt three in there as well. We do allow you to the initial version of clickflow allowed you to kind of pre impost tests, you know, titles and met a descriptions to see which one has a higher click the rate, and then we have a content decay tool that shows when you are losing traffic on your top pages right so you can kind of see how things are going overall. But ultimately our mission for clickflow is to help people drive organic traffic, more organic traffic for their brands, and it's available for anyone to sign up and use. Yep, Yep, and especially to can to decay tool. That's completely free. Oh, that's good. The Nice. Yeah, that put the link to it in the comments where you're watching, you go to clickflowcom. Really easy to find that. If you're listening to the podcast later, you can definitely find this. So let's move into to what we want to talk about to day. Now, you you've came out with a book and a podcast called leveling up, and it's orange to by the way, which you know I obviously totally like. That's color. Yeah, I mean I was like I saw the book, I was like, oh sweet, it's orange. That's even even better. Kind of I've done a book before and it was, you know, it was a long, long process. Kind of what was your idea here and why did you decide to write a book called leveling up. Yeah, so, you know, people have asked me and they're like Eric, like you're you're in marketing. Why are you? Why are you not doing a marketing book? And for me I'm like that's the easy way out because, okay, sure, you can plug them into your funnel. You can, you know, do the top of the funnel thing and then get collect the email address and then like, you know, try to upsell them that way, like that's what a natural marketing marketer would do. Right. For me, it the book is a very long term play. I started writing it when I was twenty eight years old and, you know, I kind of did it on and off over the years and I actually finished it, you know, launched it this year, right, and so on. It off a really six, seven years or so, and to me it's it's one other work on for the rest of my life. So my mission now is to level up the world, and that's something I'll never ever accomplish in my lifetime, but it's a mission I can get close to every single day. It's something that's motivating to me, right, because I don't want to have like an endpoint because once he hit the goal, like what, you know, what supposed to happen right. Not to say I'm not going to say an your goals or, you know, ten year goals and things like that, but...

...you get my my whole mission is, Hey, I want to have something to work towards for the rest of my life. And so for me, I started thinking about it more like how do I look at life in general? How do I look at things? And a lot of times I'll just be when I'll be thinking about something, I'll just refer back to my my gaming experiences, right, and whether that's Oh, okay, this is going on right now. Okay, how can I react? How can I react quickly and be very practical about it? I mean I talk quickly, I type very quickly, I communicate very quickly, and then all comes from gaming, right. So to me, you know, if our to summarize the book into one sentence, it's life is a game and business is the ultimate game, right, and I'm going to continue to look for ways to, you know, make things a game, because when you think about school in general, at least for me, it starts to get disengaging. I fell asleep in school all the time, whether it's in college or whether it was in high school and you know, I remember the ECON teacher would wake me up all the time. And my point of saying this is that when the reason I kept defaulting back to Games was because games were more engaging. So my thinking now is, how do I game afy my organizations? Right, how do I game, if I my life in general, because it just becomes a lot more fun that way and I'm just going to keep playing until I die. And that's a much more simplistic way to look at it, at least for me. Right and for one, I wouldn't have guessed through mid their to use. By the way, we thought that much younger than that. Yeah, it's the age. It's the Asian jeans as a gun is late for S. I'm like, man, so I thought you're in your s. So there you go, there we go. So we both gave each other a compliments today and we're both women in life. It's, you know, young. You know, it's nice to have a baby face sometimes. Sometimes I remember when it I used to hate having the baby face and you're like twenty one. You're like, come on, man, twenty five, come on, I'm really twenty. They think you're eighteen. But now I'm and at forty six, I'm like want of back. Yeah, you tell me I'm thirty now. I'm like yeah, you're my best friend now. So are you kind of mentioned this a little bit? I mean you're kind of using the the gamification of life, you know, the scenario of your from your from the Games over to your business. But what does that truly look like like? What does like I'm getting couple. What does that look like? In mean for real? Yeah, so I've actually been doing this recently when when people are frustrated about something, I just try to break it down on levels. Right. So I'll give you an example. When I think about our business, I know earlier you mentioned I actually don't, I'm not to see you of any of these companies right now. So you know, we at Level One. You know, I took over single rain, which is an agency, which is the failing SEO agency. This is seven years ago and managed to turn out around. So that was level one. But my thesis the entire time was if I can turn this agency around, failing company with a service that was no longer working, I think I can make anything work and if it works then I can take the cash flows from that company and go reinvest it into more exponential or durable sources of of, you know, revenue. And so the first level that I have to beat is beat the agency. First, right now. The second level is, okay, we got all their stuff going on now. You know,...

...we have educational products, we have our SASS product, we built some things internally. That's level to right. But level three, what we're doing now is actually just closed on buying another agency today and four weeks ago we bought another agency, right, but we're buying other companies now. So first, you know, single way was an acquisition, but I had to it was largely a turn around. Lots of such sweat equity. Second level was, okay, can we build some stuff's like, oh, we actually can build stuff. Okay, we have. We got the talent for it. Now now level three is, can we go up there? Can we buy stuff? And then beyond that is really you know, what else can I invest in? Right, what else can I invest in with that? A cash flows, the cash flows there and the long term thesis for us now is, okay, we have this holding company leveling up. Can we hire GM's or CEOS to run these different business units? Can we train them up to do so and as we train them out, can we game a find that whole thing right? So, anyway, level one, two, three four, that in itself we're game. If I can, to organization. So basically what you're seeing is like you're by another agencies because you kind of tap that agency out, you've hit the roof of it or the ceiling, and now you're going to a different level with another agency and another agency in just repeating the process. And it's a good question. So my goal. It's so my goal is not to a choired a bunch of agencies. Obviously, with me mentioning that, it seems like I'm trying to buy a bunch up, which is cool. I mean in private equity that's knowing as roll ups right, and you get no hire multiple that way and you get a hire exit at the end of the day. Your kind of arbitrage in there. But I'm not interested in that game because I want to keep playing until I die. And so my goal with part I have this entire vivid vision that I wrote out. So every three years I have a brand New Vision right on what I think is going to happen in the next three years and our goal is to build the ultimate marketing team. And so you ask why? Well, that's what I'm really good at and I what I've seen over the years is whenever you add good marketing to a great product or a great service, it tends to work out. And so that's at least my thesis, right. So I'm acquiring a couple agencies, we're going to build at the ultimate marketing team and then after that we're just going to buy other businesses that have economies of scale, that have, you know, more switching costs, you know all this business jargon that that you might have heard of, right, but you know, level one is to make the holding company work. Holding Company part let's get the agencies first, let's get the talent, then let's start to train people up to become, you know, GM's or CEOS, or go hire outside GM's and CEOS, and then, you know, the machine should just continue to work and then eventually will build out a more kind of formalized, you know, for lack of a better word, Ma team. Yeah, that's a lot there to soak you. So if you're watching right now, we're we're talking to eric sue talking about how to level up and how what that looks like in different aspecause I'm curious. How do you, because you're talking about how I can. You're on your website leveling upcom you know, radically improve your life and just thirty days. How could? You can? You can? You can? We apply these principles in the book to say, like I mentioned, are like losing weight or...

...learning how to serve, for learning French. It's just applicable outside of businesswords is all business focus. It is applicable outside of business because I wrote the book for my twelve year old self, and that's what most people don't understand. And so some people actually say like, Oh, this book is actually a lot more than for just gamers. I wouldn't know, because I've really wrote it for my twelve year old game or self, but it said. You know, the comments I'm getting from people now are it goes beyond that. So what I would say is the I look at life as a series of power ups that you have to go get right. So, you know, Mario eats the mushroom, he gets bigger, he eats the flower, he can shoot fireballs right. So you know, you go around your largely looking for positive power ups to collect right, you, and I mean this is table stakes. It's okay, you know. Obviously in life or in business we have to understand that we need endurance, right, we need to stick through it. Most people give up too easily. Right. We also understand that we need to cultivate, you know, healthy habits as well. Right. There's also there's negative power ups and there's positive power ups. And then also, if you get a sword in a game you keep using the short over and over, you lose durability. Right. So you have to keep sharpening this ord. So you have to keep honing your power ups as well. But the idea is the book has fifteen power ups in there and that's really just the beginning. The idea is I'm going to plant the seed and say, Hey, you have to go, continue to go, collect other power ups and just get stronger and stronger. I become the best version of yourself. And finally, I'll say you know, one one power up is actually in the book. It's called thievery, and there's probably cognitive dissonance in people because they're thinking, oh, like, I'm not a thief, I don't want to steal, but reality is we're all stealing, right, ethically. So you know the mouse over here, right, you know the I mean I don't know how true this story is, but you know the legend has it that Steve Jobs went to Zerox and he he took the mouse from them. Right. I don't know how true that is, but it sounds good. Right. But you know, whatever we're reading, when we're learning from other people, or even us doing this live stream right now, like we learned that from broadcast TV or US doing a podcast. We will not from radio. Right. We're all building on the shoulders of Titans. So it's really kind of reframe and being like, Oh, actually, you know, thiever and ethically stealing is actually a good thing and it opens your mind up more to continue to listen to other people's perspectives and takes less it takes the pressure off of you to have to be original. Yeah, I think there's totally true. You said the cognitives and a thievery or like wait, but yeah, we we're borrowing from there's was the thing or the statement. Nothing news ever created under the Sun at this point. Everything's been made. At this point, it's just we're reading real mixed yeah, we're all just doing our own take on it. You know, I've watched lots for the people do live video shows. I had a good coat, you know, Owen video was my cohost for a year. I learned from him and and I kind of put my own spin on it, do my own thing. It's but still you're stealing from somebody else. You're just making it your own deal and running with it, which is, like you said, the...

...power I like that idea. So like so we go fevery, then you power up to something else. You can probably have your own take on it and, you know, up applying your own self to Yep, hundred percent. And so that's what it is. It's you know, by the way, the book itself is is thievery to its remix. Right, to me it's it's actually it's an hat. It's a habits book, right, but there's a spin on it. So I think in life. But I'll talk about marketing for a second. People talk about condom marketing all the time, right, so you got to think about what your intersection is, right, so gaming and for me marketing or business, right, and then that's my intersection. So how can I attack that? Because that's my that's unique to me and nobody else really talks about, because there's still a stigma towards gaming. But you also have to understand to that if you look at Google trends, you look at all these games, are just continue to go up into the right. So I'm going to attack that. I'm going to zig where other people are zacting. That's another marketing thing, right. So, HMM, yeah, I love that constantly because, you know, I've got to. I've got a ten year old boy who is using in his Nintendo switch never leaves his hands. I think they're in the summer especial book is for him, tested on him. You know how good? Yeah, because he's like he's so into gaming and I'd never have been a Gamer. I you know, I think. You know, pstwo is about as far as I ever win and it was all maddened back in the S and early thousand. But but he fortnight. You know, let him get fortnight and I you minecraft until this I've watched him play the other day on fortnight and I know he's playing against some of these people who are probably been, you know, there twenty there in their S. they've play a lot and he's he's winning these battle royals and doing stuff. I'm like how, I'll try get on and play it. I'm like, I don't know what and I killed you know pretty quickly. But he's figured out he's what and he goes. What he does to this is a thievery part is he watches youtube videos all the time of people playing for tonight and then he goes and applies it to his game. And that's and that's what we do in business. We watch a video, we read a blog and then we go apply that to to our own business. And I think about sports. I mean, why does Tom Brady Watch replays all the time? Everyone? Why do all the top quarterbacks watch replays for to prepare for the next game? Right, it's the same deal and I'm willing to bet your son it's going to be a lot faster than other people. He's going to think a lot faster than people too, and so he's straight, a student and smart as whip. To there you go, are too, but they don't play games as much as he does now. They played the other games, like you know, was it smash Bros and all that, which I'm still game used. Yeah, every time I play that game I'm like who am I? Which? which character am I. I'm constantly yelling it, but I do think. I we I think gamers in general especially, you know my generation or right before me. You look at people playing, kids playing games like Oh, they're just wasting time. But, like you said, that what it does in the ability for them to make decisions quickly and and learn on the fly and teach themselves. It is so I remember pitfall and all the Zelda and all those games back when I was a kid and it does something for your brain. So...

...do if you have kids, don't like completely squashed and now have limits on how long they can play and and all those I mean to me it's training. So when you if you're if you're playing football or if you're playing basketball, I mean you over trained, you can tear your acl right. It's the same thing with gaming. You you overtrain, your eyes are going to hurt, your health is going to suffer too. But to me, if you get just enough, a good, you know, minimum effective dose, it's good enough to make you a better person. Back on the leveling ups kind of stuff. So you like you're talking about. I we know when we play a game like Super Mario Brothers or something, you power up you get the you hopped the flag in the coins go fly next level, next level, next one. How do we know in a in business, for example, how do we know when we've it's time to level up? Like, how do we know we've reached the end of that level and have to move up? Yeah, so I think one thing you can do is if you, let's say you're running a business, and the first the first boss you have to be, let's say you start a business, is get to a hundred K mark, right, and then the next mark would be get to the seven figure marks. So you have one hundred K, you have a million, then you have ten million, right, eight figures right. Then after that it's once you get to ten million, like everything changes right around the business and you have to you have a new set of challenges once you're, you know, fifty two, a hundred million or so, and you just have to keep leveling up. Not only I mean the the the revenue number is kind of a barometer on the new challenges that you have to face. Right, you have to recruit a brand new set of people, a lot of systems that you have are going to break, right, and so you have new games to play because it's very difficult to bring in the best people right, because that in itself is sales. And then you have to think about going from six to seven figures. As an example, you got to start thinking about, Oh, one of my processes, one of my core values, what's my mission, what's my vision? All the things that you think are belogny. At least I did, you know, in the very beginning. And then beyond that, you know, as you evolve into more of a let's say you want to build a holding company, then you got to think about who else can I recruit? How can I become the ultimate recruiter? And if you're going to invest in more companies, how can I get the most deal flow? Should I be creating more content? Should be throwing events, all this type of stuff, so I can get more deal flow and invest in the best companies out there. So there's a game within a game. And even tomorrow, as an example, I have a guy that that paid thirty five grand for for, you know, leveling up books right, and so as part of the deal he gets to hang out with me for a day. So He's coming to Miami tomorrow. I guess what I'm leveraging that to also throw a dinner with other founders in the area that move from, like New York, San Francisco, all very good people, all kind of power players right, and all very nice. But you can see that's kind of a little level up there. I could have just said Hey, let's hang out for a day, but I wanted to take that one level higher and say, okay, how can I maximize this for you but also maximize it for myself as well and just, you know, be that connector yeah, that's I love that thought bro like how can you go from you know, we sometimes we just want to move widgets and...

...we check the box, but you could always make the experience better, or make even your business better, about by get having those goals and go into the next thing. Now, what if, like, let's say you set that goal of a hundred thousand dollars? You know, that's your first level. You just keep not getting there. Is there a point where you're like all right, it's time to play a different game? Yeah, move do something else, like when if you kind of had those times when we're like, yeah, this didn't work, and how can other people maybe apply what you thought your thought process? So I mean here's here's the game. I part of the game is also reframing how you think about things. So growing up, at least in the Asian household, it's always I hear my parents fight about money all the time. Everything's money, money, money, look at the stock market, money, money, money, right, and so you start to think, should I optimize for money? And you realize at least growing up, you optimize for money, usually it's not the right thing because your whole world becomes warped. And what I optimize for is fun. Am I having fun at the end of the day? Am I learning and am I helping people? Right? And what example of where we was kind of a catastrophic failure was you know, I age twenty three or twenty four, I bought an e commerce website. Right, it was. I talked about this on your pocket. I think it is a magic store. Did IT HAVE ANY PASSION FOR IT? That one failed right. Also learned very quickly that you have to partner with the right people, have the vet your partners to probably good idea right. Didn't. And also, a couple months after that I bought from the same guy. He had a head it training website. So he had all these websites I just bought. I had no idea what I was doing. Right, and this is my life savings, you know, a couple thousand dollars. And that one failed because I don't have any passion for either. But I was I was like, Oh, it's ECOMMERCE, I'm going to make money, it's great. And even even, I would say six seven years ago, I tried doing a senior living business with my high school friends and they're both very smart, very successful, but the problem was none of us were interested in senior living, and so you got to work on something that you're interested in, right. So those are just three examples right there where it's like okay, it's time to throw into towel, where you just don't feel anymore when you're like waking up in the morning. I think one barometer that Steve Jobs used to have was, you know, if he finds himself saying maybe three four days in a row, like I don't really I'm not interested in doing what I'm working on today, then it might be time to start to think about something else. Yeah, I think that, knowing you're so I all of his film, especially when you know all the all the websites were popping up. I think I had thirty four, what you websites at one time, but I'll make money from there. Like I don't know anything about, you know, pet care or you know, tractors or what he but I had a website for because, you know, someone told me to do it. And then you're spit, spinning your wheels all day long trying to do something and you hate it. Maybe it makes you a little bit of money, but then you hate it's like MLM businesses. I know people who've done phenomenal in a multi millionaire friends that started from zero and I saw him work the way up. But they love it, they're passionate about I would try to do them because I...

...saw them. I just fell out of miserable because I hated it. And Yeah, process, I think once you start to fall in love with something, people start to pay attention to you. And you know what I hated for the longest period of time was when I'd speak at these tech conferences, they kept referring to me as the Seo guy, and that was really annoying to me because I was like that's not that's that's not what I am. But then I realized later that's kind of a competitive advantage because not a lot of people know Seo. Right. So I'm like, okay, sure, just let me in that category. I'll talk about other stuff when, you know, if I meet with these people. Right. So I think it's helpful. Like, for example, you like it, Scott, what we look at you like it's like, okay, it's goot with orange hair. Right. So, yeah, I'm pretty pigeonholed now at this like no one knows about look like it was just which is nice that, you know, everybody recognize me and knows me. Is this. But if at some point I pull out of it, you know, people going who are you? You know, they're always going to know men orange are forever, though, as the Orange Chair guy, which is nice on a local level, like nobody locally has any clue what I do, and so they don't. They don't know me as unless they see my facebook profiles, and they'll. They'll ask me about this all the time. But yeah, I think I think you got to do what you love and then I think if you're if you're doing what you love, you have passion for it, like everything you've been talking about so far. You know, I can tell you're passionate about it, you believe in it, you love it. It's contagious. Other people want to do it too. Like I ran a bounce house business for five years here in my town. Loved it. Always had funds that I was a youth Mr Back in the old days and I always rented them and had kids. When I got kids, I was written them all the time like Hey, I'm to start a business with this because I'm written the thing so much ms as well. Own A few. started out with five and thought I'll just rent, I'll do it here on the side, and then all of a sudden the business exploded and here I had forty units or something like that, and it was a full time job with two or three employees and a lot of marketing and and everything that was going on, to which I loved it because I got the test everything through that business and I love it, had passion for it that I got to a point when it just became it was no longer fun. You know, is like, okay, I am working really, really hard for not a lot of money because I was having to pay people to go do it and I was doing on the backing stuff, and so I find it, I'm out and then, yeah, I gave it to my little brother and now he's run it and loving it and that's great. As long as someone's having fun with it. I think the whole like the Japanese ecaguy concept. You know, people Google that. We kind of want to find an intersection where it's fun to do and you're also making money and you're helping the world, right. So, I mean I think all of us want to leave, you know, a legacy of some sort, as positive a positive I can see, anyway. But you got to make money the same time, you got to sports, your family, and so if you're not, you know, I always you. Yeah, I always, I'm always feel bad for people that I know people this way, especially at my age now. I've had friends who have retired now because they bought their job for almost thirty years. Thirty years, but they hated it, like every day was a grind. That's why, you know, at my age I've probably had thirty different jobs. So I'm like,...

...nope, sick of it. Yeah, I mean, looking in the book, I talked about MPC's right, so non player characters versus Pc's, which are player characters. The vast majority of people in life are NPC's in my opinion, because they kind of just take it, they don't make any adjustments and before you know it, boom, fifty, sixty, seventy, eighty years old, right, ninety years old, and it's like a lot of life of regret. Right. So I really like the Jeff bezos regret minimization framework. You know, by age eighty or ninety, am I going to regret not having done this? I mean he just went to space yesterday, right. Yeah, yeah, that was that was fun to watch. That was are you gonna go to space anytime soon? You know, I was looking, I was like a man. You know, I'll probably be not an early adopter, but like you know, yeah, we're such my scave. Yeah, a little haven neal paid for it. Yeah, I do think that's true. I mean I think my generation and then below work quicker to pivot and move than the general at my parents generation and probably your parents generation. Worthy just you went to work at the prison or wherever it was, and you just do that and you hate it, but you do it and you enjoy your weekends, which I've always hated. Well, it's Friday. Yeah, enjoy every day. Well, yeah, yeah, that's that. That doesn't jibe with me. Like it's happy Monday. When people say happy Friday or happy Monday. I'm just like every day is amazing, right, let's that's how. That's a dream. So yeah, I think. And then it gets what you how you have to. You should be living. That's why, of course, you know, I said I've had a lot of job since I was eighteen. I've been at this company almost five years. That says something. But I'm still having fun at it and I'm still enjoying it and I keep leveling it up and doing different things. And I think you've it's okay if you do, say the job for thirty years, if you love it exactly, but you know, if you're miserable and get out and move on to something, well, anything else, I'm gonna do one quick thing with your dam but anything else about leveling up that you want to share with this Um? Well, I mean, I have this, this pokemon card over here, so I've brought it up a couple times. I was your needing right now. Yeah, so, this, this is a chars art over here and I bought it like this is not one of the Seventyzero ones, but I think I paid like two grand or something for this. I don't know how much it's worth now, but it's really at the end of the day, it's the long game, right. I think for me, even yesterday when I have my kind of informal board of directors, he's like, so, what's the exit strategy? And like. That doesn't compute for me because my favorite holding period is forever. Right. So, as I kind of build or by other assets, I'm just going to keep building the platform until, like, to your point, until I get bored of IT and in want to move on to something else. But I just don't. You know, I think if you come into things with an exit strategy to, quote unquote, make money, I think that kind of forces you to think in it in a more harmful than productive way. Bitcoin, you do. Bitcoin, Oh, absolutely, Bitcoin, ethery am all the chain link, Salana, all those. Yeah, my my biggest regret as I didn't hoddle anybody. You know what that means. If you buy a bit. Yeah, I bought some when, not a lot, like a thousand bucks or something, when it was literally right around eighteen hundred...

...dollars, and then it went to tin and I was like yeah, and then it crashed. You can if you mere like what was it like? Seventeen, eighteen, sort of crashing, and then went back down to where I'd bought and I went all right, I'm out and I just sold. Basically, you know, I lost money because I had to pay this processing fees or coin days, and then now it's sitting at thirty something thousand and I'm like, you know what, though, I still didn't let's do it. Is that's going up, but that's comparative. Yeah, exactly, comparatively. It's going to be cheap long term if it does what it's supposed to do. Right, I think. So that the point here is, if I don't think, I'll say is whatever you're investing in, it's really important to understand what you're investing it, because if you have so much conviction you know what everyone else is like that you see the markets panic, panicking and all that, you won't be phased at all. Right. So, yeah, yeah, I think you just got a stuff like that your investments long term. You know, what are you gonna do with it? When you want to go sit on the beach, you with your wife and sip Margarita's until you know, you pass on to it. You know the the ever live. But yeah, I wish I'd held on to her, but kept saying hold on, Joe, Joel, Colm kept telling me hold on to it. I'm like, I got no you know. And now I think you have another chat student. So yeah, it's going back down a little bit unnoticed, but so I'm probably going to buy back in. Appreciate you come on the show and talking. If you guys want to check out everything, we've put links in the comments. You're watching the replay later. Listen to podcast. Go to leveling UPCOM. You can grab the book and just search for the pod. you start search for Eric Sue. When your podcast APP you'll find this podcast the marketing school with Neil. How long have you been doing that podcast now? Think we're coming up on five years and you'll do five episodes a week. Seven are you doing all? Seven? Call? Yeah, I never realize it was that many. Y'All batch record them, of course, but yeah, it's I was watching one of the videos right. Never had gone and watch the video side of it until the day I was like, oh, that's kind of funny. I ever do they actually had a youtube video after for yeah, yeah, we're actually going to throw all those youtube channels now in the leveling up channel. We previously we're holding backs and now we're just going to double them all there to see what everyone all up my youtube channel, I'll rejigger the algorithm. We'll see. All right. Well, appreciate you take the time to be with us there. Thank for having this.

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